180 | Jill Lepore on the American Nation

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We talk to historian Jill Lepore about the idea of nationalism in America, from the birth of the Republic through to Trump. What defines the nation? Why does the illiberal version keep getting the upper hand? Are there any politicians in America who can rescue the idea of liberal nationalism? Plus we ask Jill what she thinks of Johnson, Brexit and nationalism in the UK.

38 | Michael Gove

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We catch up with Michael Gove, one of the leaders of the Brexit campaign, to ask how he feels about the future of Europe now. What difference will a Macron presidency make?  Will Theresa May have more of a mandate than any other European leader when it comes to the Brexit negotiations?  And how does he feel today about his notorious remark that 'the people of this country have had enough of experts'?